Bitten by the sidescroller bug...

[Howard Day]

...and I cannot resist its call. This all started when a co-worker of mine sent me this link: http://www.dailymotion.com/swf/x9ol42 - it's a pretty neat animation, with a really nice art style. I watched and instantly thought: "This would make an awesome side-scroller/platformer.."
I kinda forgot about it for a while, then started doodling on my new laptop - you know, just to try it out.
I came up with this: using 3DSMax 2009, and some camera tricks to come up with the orthographic, angled camera. It sparked my interest, and I continued to mess about, till I got this: Then I sent that over to the co-worker who originally sent the video. She liked it, but declared that it needed more "whimsy". I instantly agreed and started adding things to the scene in my mind - trees, planter boxes, skylights, flapping flags, more pipes, a lot more greenery, etc.
After an evening of work, it transformed into this:

And I'm really liking it! I'm sharing here to ask for more ideas, suggestions, whatever. I have no idea what this will transform into, or if I'll even get *part* of an actual game out of it. It might just turn into a gloriously long mock up.
I still have the foreground/background layers to do, and I have some awesome ideas on where to take them...but I'd love any suggestions from you guys.

[happymonster]

This is really nice! I love the bright white lighting on the roof surfaces. However this does mean that the grey ground looks very dull in comparison. What about making the normal ground area brighter and have more variation in brightness due to kerbs, tiled areas, platforms, etc.. I'm thinking of some kind of desert / arabic architectural style and highly lit surfaces with the modern future buildings you have here.

Does that make sense?

[Jakten]

Yeah I agree that the ground should be lighter, it looks like it is in shadows right now. Also maybe make some of the buildings at different distances? It looks weird to me that they are all in a straight line.. or maybe its just that there isn't much room for a player to move. This is looking fanatastic though, I really like the building with the 5 on it. Could you post some wireframes maybe? I'm interested to see how much of the details are textured.

[Howard Day]

happymonster: Okay, good call. I had kinda been neglecting the roof surface itself - all the detail I'm putting in in other places, the roof should have some too, right? Anyway, I'm away from my primary computer right now, so I only have what I stuck on the jump drive this morning. Here's a shot of that scene with a brighter roof...no real additional detail, but a brighter roof.
or even one with a color-adjusted roof:
Jakten: The buildings are pretty similar right now, but there will be additional layers in the background to help deepen the scene. Right now I'm imagining this being very similar to metalslug in the gameplay arena - strictly 2d, with no movement into or out of the plane of play - those wooden platforms are supposed to represent the gameplay path in some subtle way. Anyway, luckily I have the scene with the building you're interested in here with me - here's the wireframe:
http://www.hedfiles.net/wire1.png

Thanks for the feedback - I'll work on adding interesting floor decorations tonight.

[Manupix]

Wow, this looks great! And thanks for the video too.

The trees look too green and too leafy, I'd suggest to make them look more 'urban', with sparse greyish leaves.

The flags don't mean much to me, they distract from the futuristic feeling. No better idea yet though.

[Jad]

Greenery ... well. I don't think it's too lush. It's just too plastic.



It's harder than concrete and metal because it's partly transcluent and being backlit as it currently is the light would shine through and make it a very nice warm luminous green, while the tops of the leaves would have less saturation and more sky blue in them - all in all the green deep super saturated color you've got going on would .. never exist. Yup, that's right.

[Howard Day]

Jad, good call. So I've altered the texture on the leaves, as well as done a first run on more detail on the ground...

But there's still something bothering me - I realized that the camera angle was a bit too high - like happymonster said, it looked like the character would have more room to move around than a straight line...

I also played with the translucent material on the leaves a bit more, and I'm much happier with it now...I realize that they're very lush - but that's part of the whimsy.
I dunno - that looks pretty good. The only thing I see myself now changing is the horizontal angle of the camera - right now you'd be looking at the back of the oncoming enemies, and the front of your character. I think I might need to reverse that.
Thoughts?

[ptoing]

Looks quite nice. The flags look like orange bacon strips tho, dunno if that is good :/

I think the leaves are still a bit too noisy, perhaps you can tone that down somehow.

As far as perspective goes the bottom one looks good, but I would flip it so that the faces of the buildings you see are the left side and not the right.
This of course is assuming the player walks left to right.

[Howard Day]

Ptoing: Mmmmm, fly high the banner of bacon-y goodness! Let the kingdom of pork reign supreme! No, good call, I've swapped it out with something a little less abstract...
and one with the anti-aliasing turned on - should help kill some of the noise in the trees.
I also switch the viewpoint right to left. Much better I think. I also flipped the building. I may not do this on all the buildings I've made - I almost didn't on this one, but there was too much cool detail on the right side that got hidden.
 Also - here's a shot at an explosion I'm working on - might be a bit big for a small enemy death, but one of the larger ones should be perfect.


Thoughts?

[Conceit]

I have to say this is looking pretty good 

I also have to say that I think you should tweak your lighting.As nice as that backlit sillouethy thing you got looks, leaving most of your foreground to be lit only by ambient light really doesnt say whimsy to me....

[Dusty]

I think this has a ton of Mirror's Edge vibe in terms of color scheme, and a hint of Dragonball Z building design... I'm not sure why I get that feeling but it just brings back memories for whatever reason. I also have to agree with Conceit though, having the foreground in the perspective of shadows doesn't make a lot of sense, and looked better prior to the camera change. I also think I liked it a bit better when the camera height and angle was a bit higher, as now it's a bit hard to even tell that the things on the ground are boards, if not for the original picture.

I think you should work on the timing of the explosion some. Maybe the explosion should be faster, while the smoke lingers a bit slower and longer.

[Indigo]

I'm very interested in how you made the explosion - care to explain a bit?

[Howard Day]

Conceit: Yeah, it's waaay prettier the original way.

Dusty: I will definitely cop to being inspired by mirrors edge - it's such a very pretty game, it's hard not to be inspired by it. As for Dragonball Z...I've never seen it - and I dislike most anime, so I can't account for any similarities. And yeah, the explosion timing needs work - that's just a first run to get the particle systems worked out.
Indigo: Yeah, no problem. It's a series of 3dsMax particle effects, with some procedural materials applied - that's actually true of all these scenes and models - there's only one bitmap used, the flag, in the whole lot. If you're really interested in the specifics, and can get your hands on the trial version of 3DS, then I'd be happy to make the file available if you'd like.

[Indigo]

I'd certainly enjoy taking a look at that.

Edit:  Looking at the scene, I'd love to see a parallax-scrolling background layer behind these pieces.  A bluer-desaturated cityscape full of this style of buildings would be absolutely awesome.

[Howard Day]

Indigo: Cool, here's the file: http://www.hedfiles.net/explodedemo.zip - you'll need at least Max 2009 to run that.
I played with the timing of the explosion - I think it's improved.

I also found the time to make my first enemy - well, mostly, still playing with the animations...

DEATHBOT!

Thoughts?

[Indigo]

thoughts?  I'm in love.  Really.  Everything is really well-designed and animated extremely well.  I want to see all these dang models on my screen so I can analyze them! yarrgh!   Thanks a ton for the file.  i'm going to look it over after I find Max. (i've been modeling in lowly wings)

[big brother]

Where have you been all my life?

Also, I admire your streamlined workflow. This is a big chunk of assets to get to a reasonably polished state in only a few days.

[Dusty]

Hmm, something about that bot bugs me. Its movement is almost like a limp of sorts, rather than something you'd see on a similar spider...

[WM]

Hmm, something about that bot bugs me. Its movement is almost like a limp of sorts, rather than something you'd see on a similar spider...

I think it's because the legs dont alternate perfectly; it's more of a sluggish gallop rather than spider-steps.

[Howard Day]

Indigo:Hope you're able to make use of it.
big brother: Eating cheetos. Thanks - it's not nearly as hard as it looks...
Dusty, WM: Yup, you're right. That first was just a first pass...

Much better, I think.
Thoughts?

[LoTekK]

That there is just sexy. Loving the visual style so far, and that spiderbot looks awesome. There's a part of me that prefers the more staccato movement of the previous animation, though. I think that would work better with a bit of cleanup.

Nice explosion, too, though there's arguably a bit too much flame action at the source. I think if you want to keep some fire going, don't animate them as quickly (their current timing makes them look more like weird firecrackers going off; though I suppose you could call them secondaries).

Got any concepts for the player character?

[Howard Day]

Okay...added the guns and a prelim firing animation...

Thoughts?

[rikfuzz]

Okay...added the guns and a prelim firing animation...

Thoughts?

I love this style. The muzzle flash seems to go backwards though, and emits no lighting atm.  The animation of the recoil seems a little odd too though it's harder to explain why.

[Ben2theEdge]

I think you need to be careful not to run into visibility problems - your enemies and your buildings have the same color scheme. Combined that with the high saturation/contrast and intricate detail and you get a severe camoflauging effect.

[Jad]

Yes, I was going to say that - did the same guy build all the buildings and the bots? Well sure, that guy was YOU in TEH REALITY but think about it - I'd like a different but complementary color scheme on the bot. ' D '

[Ben2theEdge]

You might even be able to get away with just doing an inverse of the building color scheme - orange with gray details. that'd still be pretty close but it would be a bit improved

[Howard Day]

LoTekK: Hmm. Well, I'm sure I'm doing more than one variation on the spiderbot theme, so maybe the difference in walk cycles can be one of the identifying features? I'll keep messing about with the explosion, too - I agree with the flickering going on at the source - much too busy. As for the player character...I have some ideas, but nothing solid as of yet. He's gonna be slightly taller than the spiderbot, maybe at most half-again, and in some sort of suit.
Ben2theEdge, Jad: Yeah, I agree - these little guys just get lost in the background. Ben - your suggestion of flipping the color scheme seems to have worked (mostly) perfectly. Nice catch!
- added flash lighting effects...I'll also continue tweaking the recoil animation...
- and a test with the little buggers in the scene - I think they stand out nicely, now.
Thanks again, guys.

[Pawige]

I think the problem with the recoil is the strange chain of events. The gun fires, flash comes out, gun slides back, gun stops sliding back and then stops and suddenly swings up. I would suggest either swinging them up immediately, or just ditch that entirely and just have the slide back. I really really really love this. Can't wait to see more! 

[CrazyMLC]

I have little to no experience in 3D, but I can say that looks amazing. I can imagine playing this on the PS3, and the graphics rival most of the games I have.
I can see very little similarity between your art and the video, but it seems to have sparked some amazing creativity!
I really like how this is coming along, and I hope you make more!

What I can say is that the new color scheme has made the bot much easier to see, and the walker seems to walk funny, for most 4 legged animals its left-front, right-back, right-front, left-back, mainly for stability.
To me, at least, how you have it looks unnatural, but still manages to work! I still think it needs some fine-tuning, however.
The guns look very precarious, lolling about, etc. Its a nice effect but seems a little exaggerated.

[Tuna Unleashed]

this is absolutely gorgeous. I love how much atmosphere and style you convey without any really off the wall effects or cellshading.

[9_6]

The 3-coloured kind of thing you have going on reminds me more of mirrors edge where everything is red, white and blue rather than what I have seen in that video.

[publicenemy1]

Hi Howard,

the mockup looks very professional. What happened to your Possible Space Shooter Mockup... ? Is that game still in the making?
I work as a programmer for other kind of software but lurking to get a opportunity to work on a game.


So if you need someone for a game prototyp please send me a mail.

[Splode]

Absolutely beautiful.

The weapon needs a lot of work though.
 - The bug braces too quickly.
 - The gun's delayed recoil after firing is both odd and also excessive. Maybe if you had the gun on a sliding mechanism, so it moves backwards when it fires, rather than upwards after it fires (which looks unnatural)
 - This is just a possibility, but maybe the guns swing around too much when the bug walks?
 - The entire fire animation seems to happen too quickly. Let us enjoy those fantastic effects for a little more than that split second!

[Howard Day]

Pawige:Yeah, I think I exaggerated the firing movement too much...Here's an update. , and I'm glad you like it - I gotta say, it would be nearly as cool without all the feedback I've been getting - and for that I thank you!
CrazyMLC: Thanks! I dunno if I am gonna change the walk order, but I agree on the guns....re-do:
Tuna Unleashed: Aaah, the wonders of radiosity.
9_6: Yeah, I went ack and looked at the video again, and was kinda surprised how little it resembled what I had come up with...
publicenemy1: Thanks. The space shooter thing is pretty stalled right now - I think it a combo of both I and DKH being distracted by other things...as for you kind offer, I think I shall have to turn you down at this point - I already have far too many projects I'm working on where people are depending on me to deliver assets - I'd hate to add yet another one to the list of disappointments.
Splode:I hope the previous 2 animations meet your expectations. As for slowing it down, I dunno - I've had the experience that whenever I slow animations down to showcase the awesomeness that occurs, it always looks really weird in game...Nevertheless, here are the newest animations at half speed...
And the latest version of the explosion:  and one with a little moar whumpff at the begining.
I'm working on the background buildings right now...

I know about the tree. Already fixed!

[Conceit]

I recently looked into the original vid a little more...to be honest with ya, I originally thought that your interpretation had no true connection with the short (which plays a bit more like an intro).

http://www.dailymotion.com/swf/x9ol42 what's most like your background is the shot at 0:07 and the architecture is all slightly wonky, it was hand drawn and it shows...I believe you should tweak the verticals of your building so that it isnt really vertical, so that it looks just a little off. Also....you should keep in mind all of the buildings in the original have a very artisan looking aspect to them, unlike your building which somewhat feels prefabricated, it feels like a futuristic fantasy prop that could be maybe in megaman or similar.

There is a feeling of childlike curiosity all over the short which is wholly missing from the mockup. When I think of a game version of the short, I think http://adamatomic.com/canabalt/ only less punishing and with a bit of exploration into it...

The distancing from the short is also true for the spider sprite. If you want to keep the same kind of ambience I think you need a few hand drawn elements in the sprites or atleast elements that imitate hand drawn stuff (think viewtiful joe's scarf) or maybe the ocassional cel shaded element

I dont even know if you're going for the short's ambience anymore but I wanted to give u ideas in case you did even in the slightest. With work of this scope I feel the need to make crits of the same kind of scope :p it's all as inspring to me as the original short was to you and I wouldnt know where to start to do something like this, much kudos

[Howard Day]

Conceit: I gotta say...I'm pretty content with going my own way on this one. The original video was great for inspiration, but the goal was never to copy it 1-to-1. I've done far too much of that in my artistic career, and its good to go my own way a bit on this one. I love that it inspired me to start the project, but I hold no more loyalty to the original video than that.

[Conexion]

Brilliant work. I love how cohesive it all feels, and the style is wonderful. I must ask, how do you keep the render colors so consistent? I use Cinema 4D myself, but have had the same troubles in my experience with 3DMax. I find I can either shade the models by hand without lighting, or use a standard light and get a million shades.

Great work though. Have you considered maybe making the shadows have a ting of blue to complement all of the orange going on?

[CrazyMLC]

Speaking of blue, the blue on the spiders is very dull but they look like they should be sci-fi glowy lights.

[Howard Day]

Conexion: Thanks. As for the render colors, that's a combination of an orthographic camera ( one with a viewing angle of effectively 0 degrees) and a Directional light (light with no position in the world, just an incoming angle). I let the advance lighting/radiosity do all the cool bounce lights and color bleeds. Not nearly as tricky as you might imagine.  The shadows are quite blue-purple right now, and I think they're saturated enough. if not, I can always up that at a later date...
CrazyMLC: yeah, ever since I switched 'em over from red they've been sort of lost. Here's an update: along with the inspiration to up the interest in the blue lights was the decision to change the muzzle flash to orange/green. Looks much more Raptor:Call of the shadows-y now...

And I thought I'd give you all a bit more of a look under the hood - here's the spider bot animation at it's original resolution:
And he are two untouched render frames direct from MAX..

And all together now!

[Conexion]

Awesome stuff! Good to hear, I'll need to play with that myself And I should have clarified - I meant the shadows cast by the spider-bot guys.

[Howard Day]

Ahhh, yes. That is an issue. I shall see what I can do.

Okay - added some color to the bot's shadow... Not nearly as easy as I thought it'd be. Joy.

And in the scene -

[CrazyMLC]

The hull, especially close up, seems rather shapeless. I think it might look better with some accenting bumps on it.


And the legs also have a similar problem...


EDIT: Blast! Photobucket strikes again! Sorry about the jpg.

[Gil]

I just realised that Larwick would love this It's like Rustbug: the movie or something.

I love reading these posts. Thanks for the full renders, very delicious to look at. I'll start dishing out comments if I see something go wrong, but for now, I think you're on top of it.

[Howard Day]

Ah, Rustbug. Believe me, I was not trying to copy that.
CrazyMLC: I'm gonna leave the shape as is. For reasons already brought up by Ben2theEdge, the more detail I add, the more difficult it will be to read the shape of this think against the background. As it is right now I feel like it's at the bare minimum of readability - any more detail and it'll just be lost. That's my feeling on it, anyhow.

[ndchristie]

About the firing - it's a little odd.  Basically the flash shouldn't move with the recoil, and the recoil should be pretty much instant.  Right now it's a bit slow, and the flash somehow changes position like it's a solid object.

here's how i might do it with 3 references i found after (turns out on film the flash pretty much happens with the gun still in place, this might be the way to animate too)


http://www.break.com/usercontent/2007/2/Slow-Motion-Muzzleflash-227935.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GljxcqqNeYU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOvqG_eTxq4

[CrazyMLC]

Guns really only flip up when being fired because of the way the wrist reacts to the force of the gun pushing back, and because the pivot point of the gun is on the handle, meaning the point that is actually firing is above the pivot point, meaning the gun will alway shoot up a bit.

For the muzzle flash its really just a flame being ejected out of the muzzle, right? I would imagine it would leave a trail of fire.

[ndchristie]

I took the more classic recoil motion (which relies on the way the wrist moves) because it is recognizable, but that's really not what I'm talking about.  What I'm talking about is the fact that the energy blast is made up of particles which are not attached to the gun, and would flare out from where they were emitted and not drag back with the gun in recoil as they are currently.

[CrazyMLC]

Yeah, I was just pointing out the mechanics, and if you look at the graphics of the spider-bot the hinge holding the gun is below the barrel, so the gun should, in theory, tilt up a bit, unless the hinges really tighten up for shooting or something.

[Howard Day]

ndchristie: Thanks for that. I'll see what I can do to adjust the fire animation. More lag on the muzzle flash. I'll also be putting together an idle animation tonight.
CrazyMLC: Yeap, the gun recoil needs some work, too.

And here's what I did today, so far: New background
And re-vamped the first background

So, gonna head out for a bit, then check back in with some new animations...hopefully.
EDIT:
Boom.
Okay, and he idle animation: - and everything together!

[Jakten]

Wow Howard this is absolutely astounding, I could watch this mech all day the walking animation looks fantastic!

Watching your most recent firing animation the kick back seems weird. It looks okay on the machine but the guns should kick back sooner I think. I think it might make it look like it has more force.

Can't wait to see the idle animation!