Feature 06 - Razor, leader of the Blades (Fallout fan-art)

[johnnyspade]

okay, so here we go again. I’d kind of neglected the thread before, but it’s up and running again. all in all, I’m done with my paid job for now.

as you remember, the original ’95 conceptual sketch was this:

Click!

yep, it’s quite badly-made, just unbelievable those guys made it into Fallout, a cornerstone of computer role playing gaming. . . right? but after all, this is how early concepts are; we can just take no notice of its little shortcomings – it’s a good starting point anyway, innit?

in Fallout, Razor is depicted as “a very beautiful woman with a sad look in her eyes” and says “Razor’s the name. I’m the closest thing we have for a leader.” when she introduces herself to the player. what we have here is an example of quite an important character with a strong personality. with some help of our game hero and the Blades gang, she defeats Regulators, the so-called “police force” of a post-nuclear Los Angeles.

whichever the story may be, however, I’ve changed my approach completely. a complete turn around. too early to take big formats. it’s also a bit useless since we rely on more complex painting methods when it comes to SVGA graphics and hi-res VGA modes. forget it. now I’m trying to focus on face anatomy, let it then be the object and the result of my studies so far from now on. the piece no longer portrays a complete pose, we have (just) a talking head instead. BTW, do you know those?

http://fallout.gram.pl/index.php?act=pokaz&id=16

and the one most interesting for us here:

Click!

so. . . my previous work (no longer continued but I may get back to it some day and then utilize the critique given before):



and the current progress (320*256px, 32 colors):


http://www.pixeljoint.com/pixelart/33198.htm

C&C *highly* appreciated! fanx! fanx! fanx!

[Sherman Gill]

It's like every critique I make on here this week I have to remake . (My critique was a post that got nuked yesterday or whenever)

Anyway,
arms are too short, base of the wrists line up with the crotch when arms are dangley.
Chest and neck area is shaded weird. Mostly the weird splotches of light below the (our) right breast and the breasts themselves don't really have shape. The collar bone or whatever it is is way too defined and makes the girl look more manly.
The belly also looks like an indent rather than... a belly. You need to make it so that less shadow from the jacket hits it then the surrounding parts rather then more.

The head is coolio though.

[Ben2theEdge]

I think the reason she doesn't look very feminine is the pose. I don't know if you know about "action lines" but here is an example:



You've got her standing mostly straight and then bending forward at the top, with her arms bowed out. This is a very masculine pose; even "tough girls" don't stand like this. God in His grace and wisdom made ladies very curvy and it shows in the way they stand; they seldom slouch forward, tend not to spread their legs so much, and never ever bow out their arms like a gorilla unless they're trying to be funny; even the toughest female athletes will never be seen assuming this position. Note the line of action from feet to head tends to take an S-shape. Maybe it's more of an animator thing but I usually literally draw my action line when I sketch out the initial pose, it helps keep everything balanced and holds the whole thing together.

Hope this helps!

[johnnyspade]

okay, I’m now into a commercial project that’s absorbing all my creative energy, so this one must wait a while. . .

thanks a lot guys for the words of critique, now I see what I’ve done wrong. . . she looks like a chimpanzee, really.  that’s an interesting and yes, helpful remark, Ben2theEdge! frankly, I knew little about those ‘action lines’; this explains much! (now it looks like I know nothing about girls and girlish shapes, argh! ). the pose needs then more work deffo, if not a complete rearrangement.

the plan is: 24 colors for Razor and other 8 for some background; I’ve switched to gradient-scale to make the work easier (it’s pretty hard with, like, 20 colors to keep the overall consistency on the right track). palette tweaking later.

CU!

[johnnyspade]

look at the main post above!

[Helm]

Excellent construction, i see no problems thus far. Go ahead and do more!

[miscdude]

Aside from some of the rather sharp edges in places like the nose and the lower right(her left) cheek, I think that theres too much mirroring going on here. Most notably on the eyes and the chin line. However, I see no anatomical errors, and it looks pretty nice. Can't wait to see the finished version.

[johnnyspade]

that's enough for now:



thank you, Helm, that's really stimulating!

miscdude: thanks! what about mirroring, you know, now it's just a sketch: I rather turn a blind eye to the details at this stage.

thanks also to Ar, for helping me out at the beginning.

[Helm]

Be sure to model the neck with the same degree of SCIENCE, as necks are pretty interesting and difficult in volumes.

[johnnyspade]

right on! but the head first:



playing with planes. 5 colors in total.

CnC freely!

[johnnyspade]

über-slowly. . . I dunno, I just can't work faster. :/



cleaned the shit out; new color tones added.

[Helm]

Man I am a sucker for strong, straight polish noses on women. She's very polish in some ways but dude, you can do more!!!!! Here comes a polish lips edit, enforced by the Commision On The Preserverance Of Polish Culture and Aesthetic!

--

This edit is pretty useless besides me enjoying sucha wonderful SCIENCE-heavy face model to give it a different ethnicity. If anything look at the slopes of the lighting on the forehead, and the neck! Your version is pretty Angelina Jolie-fied, which is as far as I can tell what you're directly going for, no accident and I can only commend you for it. I prefer polish angles than doughnut-faced women like Angelina (I want to bite her face, I mean, not kiss it) but each to his own.

Remember: the stronger you render the neck crevices, the more years you age the woman. Our versions both have her in her late 30s or more. Take more lines out == younger.


It's really refreshing to see people deal with their subject matter with such rigorous determination. Two polish thumbs up, Skurwy!

[johnnyspade]

MAN, YOU'RE TRULY AWESOME!!! phuckin' A, Έλληνας, thanks SINCERELY! that's a wonderful punch! you know, and I was thinking people actually piss on this work, that they don't like it at all or something.

true, I adore Polish shapes, too, and see: I'm in such an advantageous position to have them all around! anyway, my women curves tolerance spectrum (or whichever I may call it) is rather large in scope; you know, I fancy kinda moon-faced, buxom, curvaceous, long-legged beauties. . . everything without exaggeration, however! Rubens is deffo too much!

Your version is pretty Angelina Jolie-fied, which is as far as I can tell what you're directly going for, no accident and I can only commend you for it.

my little sister (a big fan of Ms A.) shares your views, but dude, I didn't even think of Angelina while doing that piece! I'll tell you more, while preparing the concept I was trying to avoid another Angelina again (my 'Monique' is quite of her lookalike, so one Angelina is well enough). . . to no avail! I was, rather, going through Ed Benes' artworks in search of some good reference, and, as usual, some Loomis' sketches. heheh, I love her lips anyway, that's it!

Remember: the stronger you render the neck crevices, the more years you age the woman. Our versions both have her in her late 30s or more. Take more lines out == younger.

well, it's quite new to me, I'll try adjusting the slopes to the age I think I'm aiming at then, say, 22-25. as to my eye, you made her, like, 5-10 years older, but I really please your edit: everything there look so goddamn coherent and those sharp edges give her more character. mine is rather slack in some aspects. I'll deffo take something out of it, no plain talking! according to purpose, the whole piece is going to be fully-rendered, *hope*fully in about 16-24 colors (other 8 for background), so all the shapes will be pleasantly softened in the end.

you know, recently a guy, a friend of Ar, was trying to persuade me into going thru some anthropology lectures. this is really interesting, all those ethnic differences and everything, but I somehow lack material. you know, something with fine examples, page by page, with detailed photographs and abundant descriptions. have you got any reading matter on this? what would you recommend?

the new edit in a day's time.

[AdamAtomic]

I was thinking people actually piss on this work, that they don't like it at all or something.

Oh no not at all!!  This is excellent work.  People like me are not replying because there is nothing I have to add to this.  Your knowledge and determination toward rendering the female face are far more advanced than my own.  I am happy to watch it develop and learn as much as I can in the process   Keep up the good work!

[AlienQuark]

That edit is all well and fine, except I think the lips have totally been overdone. The original by Skurwy was full, luscious and feminine, and I feel like Helm has made them more masculine looking with the smaller lower lip and... well that's all really.


I am truly jealous of your anatomical accuracy. I really fail at that, and it's cool to see how this piece has evolved. The portrait is a vast step up from the original picture for sure.

Hopefully you get more time to work on this after your commercial project is finished.

[Helm]

The only way I picked up on how polish faces are was by watching your viva polska music channel some years ago for a while. I seriously have no anthropological chart or anything, haha!

Be careful when you render, of oversoftening. Some edges, even on a realistic woman portrait, are quite useful some time. We'll talk about that when you get there.

[johnnyspade]

heheh, I'm really glad to hear that, guys! it means much to me as it makes me want to work more and yet better! thanks!

she's becoming beautiful now:



12 colors total atm. can't really call the edges softened yet.

[Anything!]

Like AdamAtomic, I'm certainly enjoying this-- That's far better anatomical structure than I could /hope/ to know. o:

I'm glad you kept the luscious lips. But she actually doesn't look like Angelina Jolie so much now-- She's a lot less baby-faced than her. Here, AJ's lips don't stop before corner-- They're bloated all the way, from the center of the lips, to the edge. Her eyes are more almond-shaped... her mole is on her forehead, not close to her lips. She also has cheeks, compared to AJ.

Sure, she /reminds/ AJ, but doesn't exactly look too much like her.

... Yes, I'm trying to bullshit through /somekind/ of useful comment. 

[Willows]

Hopefully helm comes back in and persuades you to stick a couple hard edges in there somewhere to bring back that raw bad-assness she had at the beginning.

She's drifting away from her name at the mo.

[Sherman Gill]

It's coming along great, Skurwy. Quite admirable!
Though the mole is kind of blurry now and looks a bit like an indent.

Here,

Dear god she's terrifying.

[Anything!]

Dear god she's terrifying.

I actually jumped a little when I saw the picture at first, heh. XD I don't think she's terrifying... just very startling.

I don't think she needs /all/ these hard edges. A young, realistic face of a woman can only have so many angles before it softens out. I guess we'll have to see. I thought the cheek's smoothening looked perfect, but just as long as he [he?] keeps the... angular [?] shading constant.

[JonathanOfDrain]

Shouldn't she have more of a mo-hawk? She had a nice green one in the game. Looks like he just shaved half of her head.

[Helm]

When he's done with the soften pass it's easier to introduce some hard edges again in there if needed be rather than the other way around!

[johnnyspade]

thanks for the replies, guys and gals! heheh, that link with Angelina. . . god, I'd *eat* her if I could!

Shouldn't she have more of a mo-hawk? She had a nice green one in the game. Looks like he just shaved half of her head.

heheh, because that's exactly what she did! This is not Razor but Nicole. I posted that just to show you what I'd want the piece to look like. its mood, ambiance, you know? and now I think I want to achieve something more!

She's drifting away from her name at the mo.

well, what I want here is a young, vital and quite ambitious yet a bit of a sad-bad-bittersweet type of woman. I don't see any old girl nobody no longer wants to. . . gzzt!, you know what I'm saying?

some hard edges will be applied, tho, to give her more character (she's a gang leader after all), I just loved that on the Helm's edit. nevertheless, that doesn't mean I'm not open for suggestions! if you have any, write!

the new|old step posted secretly before just next to the previous:

[Helm]

*sigh* I like this lots and lots! if you want just a little bit more 'tude', give her a bit more angry eyebrows. Right now what you've got is an almost-blank-almost-smiley expression.

[Malor]

hmm you're using some low-contrast colors in a rather interesting way, to create very subtle and effective highlights and shadows.. nicely done. I agree with Helm, though, I think this gal needs a healthy dose of character and attitude, currently she's a bit bland, a little to calm and collected to be the leader of a gang. I have greatly enjoyed watching this thread, and expect to see more fantastic updates.

[johnnyspade]

sure, I see, then what about that?:



now sleep. . .

[Opacus]

sure, I see, then what about that?:



now sleep. . .

No! Continue, slave! My eyes need more awesomness! Work! Work!

[Godslayer]

I'm feeling the smoothness of the shadows. Also, nice forehead.

[miscdude]

This is definitely looking pretty awesome. Although, I have to agree with the people who said she's lacking attitude. If you're going that route, then to make this look better I think there should be more than just angrier eyebrows, although they're a good start. Maybe make one side of her mouth look like its pulling into a grin, move the cheek out slightly etc. Right now her eyes also look unfocused. Maybe if you lower them a bit(the iris, not the eye's positioning on the face.) Or something to that effect. It's really lookin great...Keep it up 

[johnnyspade]

well, yep, I think this *is* somehow connected with the calm lips arrangement. anyway, here's my new little step:



everzthing said before was taken into account, except the mouth (for now).

we need some gif illustrating the process! done!




some extra things I found on chick websites (not pornsites! purely in the interests of learning, of course!):

The idea behind the classic shape for eyebrows is to frame your eyes with grace and symmetry. They draw attention to your eyes and make them sparkle without being over-bearing. [...] Beauty finds itself entwined with the science of symmetrical geometry [...] but the math is pretty simple, so don’t worry. Obviously, one thing you want to have for great looking eyebrows is two that are shaped the same.

never know when it might come handy!

[Anything!]

... I'm a chick and I don't understand that.

Owell. It might really come in handy. You still keeping the marking on her cheek? I loved that--

[Presley]

I really love this piece, especially the newest pallete change. The way you progress with the portrait is very interesting, but certainly very effective.

I think you might be able to provoke some emotion from her by curling the lips upward in a very mild smile and add some stress to her eyes (wrinkles around the eyes, bring the inner eyebrows down; lines above the eyebrows, forehead etc.) to give her eyes more emotion than the passive stare she's current wearing.

[AdamAtomic]

Her corneas look way too square to me, too much AA there maybe?  Also they are copy-pasted which I find slightly odd...

[johnnyspade]

thanks!



23 colors atm, keeping an empty slot by now.

slow.

Her corneas look way too square to me, too much AA there maybe?  Also they are copy-pasted which I find slightly odd...

the whole eye was copy-pasted just to speed up the process. it must-a slipped my attention but I'll fix that, thanks.

thanks Presley, I'm about to do something with it.

You still keeping the marking on her cheek? I loved that--

sure I am but haven't yet thought of its design, you know, this is going to be something of a five razors tattoo. I didn't even started shaping her right cheek.

[Helm]

The color choice is really striking, but perhaps a bit too gold? I mean, it all comes down to color conditions, but perhaps the edge tint towards yellow could move in a different direction. Experiment.

The blue-green is pretty wonderful as a secondary color, though. Will be useful for rendering the jacket too.

This is a pretty inspirining piece of work, and foremost, process. Keep it up and it's getting featured. This sort of stuff is why Pixelation exists.

More bits and pieces of critique:

* Right side (ours) of the face, where the shadow of the cheek eases into the side of the nose, I think in that little gradient, you're neglecting that the nose is pretty much pyramid-shaped, so it has a \ surface there that both catches a bit more light, and even if it doesn't, really does not just gradient like a curved surface into darkness like you've got it going right now. If I am not being clear shout at me and I will do an edit.

* That mole is probably too blurry. Again, it depends on 'photography fidelity' and you can do whatever you feel like, but I'd personally sharpen that detail up a bit.

* some of the buffer shades for the highlights where you've got them all circly and rounded at the ends, perhaps it's time to start introducing just a bit more angle in there. Perhaps it's me.

* I think the expression is determination now, is that what you want? If so, good.

* Will you dither this at the end? If so, that'll be a massive stage so be prepared. And try not to lose plane distinction by oversoftening with the dithers.

* I'd suggest you start going from generic to specific in the jacket here too, just so one part of the piece doesn't overdevelop over another and they end up disagreeing.

* Nice lip highlight


As a sidenote, think about how different this is and how much you're learning through the SCIENTIFIC!!!!1 process as opposed to copying a photo like the oldschool demoscene would do. Think about why they got stuck where they were for 15 years and where you'll be with the analytical approach in 15 years. Really inspiring.

[johnnyspade]

thanks, those were really felicitous points!

The color choice is really striking, but perhaps a bit too gold? I mean, it all comes down to color conditions, but perhaps the edge tint towards yellow could move in a different direction. Experiment.

I’m doing what I can but *can’t* get anything more convenient. it all becomes either too bland or too saturated. I remember once you were enforcing your pieces with some color theories and I'm really curious how would you manage it. an edit maybe?

The blue-green is pretty wonderful as a secondary color, though. Will be useful for rendering the jacket too.

true. for the tattoo, too. (wow, alliteration!)

This is a pretty inspirining piece of work, and foremost, process. Keep it up and it's getting featured. This sort of stuff is why Pixelation exists.

I’d be honored!

* Right side (ours) of the face, where the shadow of the cheek eases into the side of the nose, I think in that little gradient, you're neglecting that the nose is pretty much pyramid-shaped, so it has a \ surface there that both catches a bit more light, and even if it doesn't, really does not just gradient like a curved surface into darkness like you've got it going right now. If I am not being clear shout at me and I will do an edit.

yea, I prolly got it, you think that’s ok now?

* I think the expression is determination now, is that what you want? If so, good.

yes, I think it suits her fine.

* Will you dither this at the end? If so, that'll be a massive stage so be prepared. And try not to lose plane distinction by oversoftening with the dithers.

well, frankly? I don’t really know. I remember some of, say, pkmays’ pieces being so subtle with no dithering at all on them that I ain’t convinced. now, it somewhat has characteristics of a sculpture and I really like it that way. on the other hand however, I love that mixed and effective dithering technique that you’re using, something derived from Dan Malone’s artworks, I think. sure, that would be a big deal and I’m in a big f-ing fear of it. I’m really in between.

[ptoing]

This is coming along REALLY nicely. No really big crits from me apart from colours being a bit too washed out for my taste, so I made an edit.



I also liked the old jacket collar better

Looking forward to more updates on this.

[Arachne]

This isn't really supposed to be a palette edit, but I agree that it looks washed out. One thing I noticed is that her face seems to wide because of the way you've shaded the sides. Surfaces angled away from the light source should be darker. I also made her nose cast a bit more of a shadow. I'm not a fan of the angular shading, but I don't see why it wouldn't work as long as it's accurate.



Otherwise loving how it's coming along. 

[Helm]

more saturation certainly seems more fitting to the subject matter. However Arachne's edit I think pushed the model off to looking more like a dude than a girl in the mouth area. Also Skurwy, I read somewhere that women have lower scalps than men, do you think that's accurate? If so, I think that's a male hairline you have there, try to take it down some  5 pixels or so? Edits forthcoming! Keep at it!

I like the new jacket more, for what it's worth!

[Anything!]

I 'unno, I really liked the old saturation-- if Skurwy need saturate it, I don't think it should be so deeply, like that.

More like this... but then again, I'm a loser. Maybe even /this/ is too saturated.



And yeah, I read that too, actually. I don't want to risk doing it myself, but you should definitely try lowering the hairline. Now that the attention is brought to the hairline... it reminds me slightly of a balding man. Funny how you don't notice things until they're point out. o__o;;

[Sherman Gill]

Hairline actually looks right to me
See:

Distance between the hairline and the eyebrow is just about equal to the distance from the eyebrow to the tip of the nose.

[Anything!]

Perhaps it's the /shape/ of the hairline... It still reminds me of a balding man.

[johnnyspade]

yeah, if so, it all comes to the shape of the hairline, I guess. on women it seems to be less curved and rather falls in a straight line. heheh, Sherman, that pic is BLAH! yuck! anyway, look at these pictures below. some of them do have visible hairlines and if measured, the distance from the hairline to the eyebrow line appears more or less equal to the eyebrows-nose segment. therefo', I'm kinda puzzled right now: Helm, Anything!: where did you find that info?



of all those edits, I like Anything's the most. maybe it's a bit too saturated, but it's okay. anyway, thanks for the rest! ptoing: there's a big shift from bland and bright to dark and contrastive colors on yours, too big IMO; Arachne seems closer but still, some of the facial features on her edit look much more manly and are over-sharpened (as for my tastes), I like the way you put highlights on the nose, tho!

an edit tomorrow prolly, no time today.

^PS: and one more thing: I *don't* fancy bald or close-cut women!

cheerio!

[ptoing]

Yup, mine was a 1 minute job where I only edited the darker range of the colours. Anyway I think it shows that it helps with adding depth.

[Anything!]

A... drawing book, I think. It was a long time ago, when I first began to draw. God knows when that was. 

So yeah. I picked up that book again some two years ago. Yeah, I liked the way it was de-saturated, but my edit kind of made it seem like a bronze statue...? Sorta? XD

[johnnyspade]

well, it seems that a lower hairline makes a woman more feminine. that's what our Razor lacks and suffers from since the very beginning. then lowering it some few pixels won't hurt her.

Anyway I think it shows that it helps with adding depth.

that's for def sure!

[Willows]

Perhaps less of the cro-magnon eyebrow effect (not that yours is extreme atall, I just lack the terms for that particular area) would make her more feminine, as all references you've just shown merely hint at a protrusion at best.

[Xelados Nafshir]

The neck and upper chest look like that of an old woman. Smooth it out and cut back on the extreme detail; only old peoples' necks look like that.

[johnnyspade]

Willows: candidly, I have no clue of what cro-magnon eyebrow effect can be.



Xelados: yes, I'm going to do that, what you see now is merely a crude blot painting sketch.